Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

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cyana
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:49 am

Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by cyana » Fri May 14, 2021 12:43 am

Hi SimLab,

it's really frustrating to see that textures still are a big issue when integrating from Rhino 7:
TB-1.png
They are either distorted or simply missing. Cannot fix the problem within Composer because the UV editor seems to be too basic. Please help.

thanks
Cyana
Last edited by cyana on Fri May 14, 2021 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

sbecker777
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:35 am

Re: Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by sbecker777 » Fri May 14, 2021 2:30 am

I agree that texture transfer from Rhino and other programs is problematic. Also, the UV texturing tools are not robust or not documented well. I know that texturing CAD models is difficult.

However, I would not agree that VR features are things "... no one really needs". Simlab Composer is one of the few VR authoring programs that have many of the features needed for development and deployment of VR training. I'd like to see more features in VR authoring like physics, multi-player/collaboration, voice/VOIP, and Blueprint-like extensibility (as the viewer is UE4 based).

cyana
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:49 am

Re: Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by cyana » Fri May 14, 2021 3:09 am

I actually don't need the VR. I'd be grateful if Composer would do the basic things first before extend to fancy stuff. Aaron from McNeel provided them with an updated SDK for Rhino 7 months ago (at least he told me so), but all resources seem to go into VR.

If you want to go into game design, there are better tools than Composer. Everywhere else it's a nice to have addon without real value. Or do you really think your customer will purchase a kitchen because he is forced to wear a VR helmet and gets sick while exploring the kitchen design? IMO designers are taken away by what can be done without considering if it is useful or not.

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Alex
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Re: Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by Alex » Fri May 14, 2021 1:51 pm

Hi cyana,

i am also a user with the main focus on conventional rendering.

Can you please send me the rhino file? I am using Rhino 7.6, too.
And except the bug on some jpg textures (workaround using PNGs) It imports the textures correctly on my behalf. ;)

There are still some bugs on SC 10.18 which aren't fixed yet.
- vertical extendible scene browser (was possible in SC 9)
- material editor does remember the texture file path - except the roughness texture
- it crashes while rendering if I change the brightness of a light emitting object

Fixed issues on my wishlist: :)
- adjusting gridsize when resizing the icons on material browser

Wishlist
- copy & paste from one scene to another
- redirect/update texture path if the folder has changed like in Indesign
-> in Indesign you can update the path for one file and then the other automatically checks of the needed ones are in the new filepath, too.

Best regards
Alex

cyana
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:49 am

Re: Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by cyana » Fri May 14, 2021 3:24 pm

Hi Alex,

I've attached the Rhino 7 demo file.
Yes, there a a lot of issues that need to be addressed, and Composer 10 especially introduced bugs or omissions that were not present in previous versions.

For instance - I don't like the GUI, that gives you the impression of being a gamer rather than a serious designer. In prior versions you could switch to the serious GUI, now you have to stick black one.

I guess it should look cool, but now you cannot even detect the correct materials anymore due to the black background. You also cannot detect them by their names either, because someone at SimLab felt it was a good idea to replace the Rhino names by 'Material-xyz'.

As you said, you cannot size the scenery browser anymore - imagine scenes with +10,000 objects and the browser fixed to a hand full of lines. I could continue for hours - like the material library that is a complete mess with totally unpredictable behavior, the non working render settings library, the missing documentations on various items and so on and so on.
Attachments
GridMapping.zip
(4.07 MiB) Downloaded 28 times

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SimLab
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Re: Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by SimLab » Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 am

We really do our best to follow issues from all users, and we always work on importers/exporters, Rendering and materials.

But at this point it should be clear that VR authoring is the future of SimLab Composer and we are investing in it more than other features.

SimLab Composer is not aiming for creating games.

It is mean for Mechanical designers and architects for selling, showing options, and serious training in VR.

I am assuming you are using the integration plugin from Rhino. If you still have the issue with latest Composer and integration plugin, please let me know and I will do my best to follow on it.

Ashraf

cyana
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Re: Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by cyana » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:38 am

Hi Ashraf,

thank you for your reply, and sorry for my delay; I did not look into this forum for a while.
But at this point it should be clear that VR authoring is the future of SimLab Composer and we are investing in it more than other features.
I have to accept this decision and hope it works for you. I have no demand for new features. I just want existing features to work properly.
It is mean for Mechanical designers and architects for selling, showing options, and serious training in VR.
Ok. But even so, Composer is not the tool for 3D design. You rather do that with a professional 3D/CAD software, from where you import the model into Composer. And if this import does not work properly, it will impact the VR presentation like any other purpose of Composer.
I am assuming you are using the integration plugin from Rhino. If you still have the issue with latest Composer and integration plugin, please let me know and I will do my best to follow on it.
I've updated the Rhino importer to 7.2. From what I can tell, it appears to be notably faster than 7.1, good job. However, the issues I reported over the last year are all still there.

- Missing material names. In prior Composer/Integration versions material names were imported correct

- Texture mapping. I'm aware that Rhino 7 has mapping issues, too - so Simlab is not to blame in every case. However, when I report a problem to Rhino, I instantly get a reply and folks who are looking into this; I get either an explanation what causes and a workaround how to avoid the problem, or a ticket with a notification when the bug has been fixed.
I'm aware that Rhino is a bigger company with much more human resources, but leaving your customer alone with a (for her/him) vital problem without any comment is not good practice. I recall back in 2013 your response was excellent. If you can't fix it, then please at least tell so. As for texture examples, I think I already posted them ad nauseam. Sometimes the object comes up correct, sometimes, same object in another scene is screwed up. Materials with transparent parts like grids are not imported at all, but just a solid version from the base color. You have to manually click each object to assign the proper material, and there are hundreds of them in each of my scenes.

- Block instances. These maybe are difficult for the importer, but why is their inner structure (like layers, their name etc.) omitted? All layers within a block are imported into one assembly, even when they are turned off like construction lines. You afterwards have to clean them up manually, and this is one hell of a work, because you cannot click lines directly.
Nested blocks are imported as one single geometry - ok this maybe becomes too complicated for the importer, but it requires to break the model apart and import those fractions and put them all together in Composer again.
Mirrored blocks come up completely black, as if their inside has been inverted to outside and therefore don't receive any light.

- Ok, one feature. It would be really helpful if you could import selected objects only (as additional option).

Composer:
I really like it. Yes. So please make the height of the object browser adjustable again. The object browser is the most important tool in Composer, and I guess no one understands why it was crippled in Composer 10. And another thing: Why can't I rotate below the base level? Is this on purpose? Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for listening
Cyana

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Alex
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Re: Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by Alex » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:20 am

"So please make the height of the object browser adjustable again" +1 on that :)

+ I kind of miss the name-tree in the material browser which disappeared in the last update.

sbecker777
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:35 am

Re: Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by sbecker777 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:33 pm

Cyana,
If you can't rotate below the ground, you might have inadvertently set the option to keep the Camera above ground. Go to Edit>Preferences>Advanced Tab. Untick "Keep Above Ground" next to Camera Settings.
simlabcamerasettings.png
Steve

cyana
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:49 am

Re: Textures from Rhino simply don't work at all

Post by cyana » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:39 am

Thanks Steve! This was it :)

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